Saturday, May 31, 2008

What Women Want #3: The Exact Same Thing That We Men Want


Was chatting with Hamlet earlier and this was how the conversation went:

Mr. Kevin Chan - Hamlet's Hero says:
gah i dont know what to write for this week's what women want!

maria's bloody tree. says:
write something different la

maria's bloody tree. says:
like how come

maria's bloody tree. says:
some women

maria's bloody tree. says:
settle for casual sex

maria's bloody tree. says:
and one night stands

Mr. Kevin Chan - Hamlet's Hero says:
You're a genius! (:
Yes, you got it right, today's article will be all about how women want sex as much as men, if not more than us men.

Before you feminists out there start preparing to flame me for my heinous sin of painting in overtly broad strokes, let me just make clarify that I'm not out here today to brand every being with a vagina out there a reckless nymphomaniac, but that girls are also sexual creatures, just like we men are.

Don't deny it, we're all sexual beings here, but I guess I was once young and naive, thinking that girls never had these urges that I had. I used to think that they were all pure and devoid of naughty desires because they always acted disgusted when they overheard us guys discussing what we love to discuss most in school. It was only later that I realized that it was indeed, just an act. Yes, I was young and naive once.

It just didn't click in my head that the girls around me had the same desires, just that they hid it better. Way better.

I'm not saying that all girls sleep around, or am condoning pre-marital sex, but the point that I want you to bring home is this:

Hamlet's Hero lesson #4: Girls want it as much as you do, they just don't want the world to know it.

When I talk about girls being sexual beings too, I'm not only talking about sexual intercourse here, but of all things sexual - from playing footsie under the table, making out in a HDB stairwell to getting the whole act going. Girls want it as much as we do, guys, they really do.

Please don't take me literally here and say that I'm assuming that all girls are AS sexual as YOU. Every girl is different (yes you femi-nazis, I'm actually saying this) and some are hornier than others lah. The main point is that they're sexual beings, like us guys too.

Why else do you think that women's magazines are full with hot sex tips and long romantic (read: erotic) stories? Why else women gossip about who's sleeping with who and who all the time? Why else do women have a sexual organ dedicated purely to pleasure that we guys don't have (penises are multipurpose organs)?

Because they're thinking about exactly the same thing that you're thinking about. Sex.

There's nothing wrong with it really, because if we never thought about it the human race would cease to exist, no?

But there is a fundamental difference between men and women when it comes to sex though. What do you call a man who manages to bed every celebrity in town? A sex god. A stud. He's admired by other men.

What do you call a woman who sleeps with every Datuk in town? A slut, disrespected by all.

Yes, you got that right, our world is unfair here. They both did the same thing. The only difference is that one has a penis and the other a vagina.

Society isn't too kind on promiscuous women (for reasons that I shall not explicate today) and girls are brought up well trained not to display such behavior in public. The key word here, class, is PUBLIC. Most normal, healthy girls have plenty of fantasies to act out on you, once you bring them somewhere more private.

So that's the next learning point:

Hamlet's Hero lesson #5: Girls want to do all those things to you too, but in private, not in public.

That's exactly why trying to give a girl her first kiss on a crowded train station is not the best idea. Instead, take her somewhere where the world won't see and judge her (unless she's one of those exhibitionist types, then it wouldn't matter anyway, right?).

That's the reason why she pushes you away when you grab her ass in public and why she turns away when you try to kiss her in front of her friends even though she's been giving you signals all night. She wants it, but she's more sensitive to the location that you are. Be kind to her, and don't give her enemies the chance to call her a slut.

Solution: get her to somewhere discreet to get the deed done. Everybody's happy. (:

Yes, I know that some of these things are so blatantly obvious for you (smartass) girls out there, but many guys out there, including myself when I was in secondary school don't know about such matters. We guys are a lot less subtle about these things ya? So stop going at me with a "any 10 year old girl can tell you that" DUH please, because guys really need to hear this. What would I have done for a blog like this when I was stuck with girl problems in secondary school? Hope you guys out there better appreciate it!

Email me if you have relationship problems out there! All names will be kept confidential, and we can discuss various solutions on this blog, hopefully resulting in a good solution!

Don't feel shy to email me at: planar.rebirth(at)gmail(dot)com!

And one more thing, updates for What Women Want will now be rescheduled for Saturdays since my Fridays are often busy.

Till then, take her somewhere private!

Hamlet's Hero out.

Edit: My favorite sex blogger, TheBeautifulKind and the Virgin from vcarded.com commented on my post! The Virgin even went all the way out to write a response to my post about sex and it's place in relationships on his blog! Read it here!

I'm a happy happy guy!

45 comments:

ern sheong said...

*speechless and faints*

now kevin is one person i would not share my relationship problems with. (nothing against you man, btw. just opinion)

Fact:
1) I do not admire men who have sex with prettiest girls in town. I despise them, not because I am jealous, but because it disgusts me that they are violating so many girls.

2) Getting physical does not equate to love. And most girls do not want to get laid or make out with any guy that makes advances, even in PRIVATE (unless they willingly want to, of course)

I for one believe that sex is something beautiful made by God, to be enjoyed by man and woman, but it must be within the boundaries of marriage. Not outside marriage. Not before marriage. I wouldn't want to make out with a girl or kiss her unless she is my wife.

Yes, that's hard to believe isn't it? You might think that I would be doomed to be single forever. This is mainly fueled by the fact that almost every single movie we watch is full of kissing scenes and sex scenes of people making out. Magazines cry out "Sex is good" Television sets cry "Have sex tonight!' The world poisons our mind. It makes us think that if we did not kiss that girl now or have sex now we are not grown up. We just cannot seem to wait today. We want it fast, instant, NOW.

Think about it. What would your future wife think when she knows that you have had sex or kissed so many girls before her? And how would you think and feel if your future wife has sex with so many before you? Feel cheated? But one is asking for it with these lessons.

Listen. If you really love that girl/guy, you would wait and present yourself unblemished as a virgin to your spouse on your wedding night. You will have proven that you love him/her enough that you are willing to wait for so many years. I hope that some of you reading this will reflect on this, because it is important that we see it this way. Instant gratification brings destruction and heart-breaks. If your relationship is all about sex, fun and not reality, then how will your marriage or relationship stand? Sex clouds the minds of the boy and girl. More likely that not, the relationship will be a total disaster. And then you would move on doing the same thing, breaking so many hearts.

I like this phrase I read in the book, "I kissed dating goodbye" by joshua harris: THE JOY OF INTIMACY IS THE REWARD OF COMMITMENT. If you do not see the relationship heading to marriage (i.e. commitment) and you are just looking for fun and sex, it is my advice that you stay single and wait. Focus on how you can be Mr Right first instead of lurking around at bars trying to pick up girls. If you are a guy like me, you can improve on the way you handle your finances, or your relationships with people, your time management, your knowledge, your attitudes, etc. I have loads to improve on, I can tell you that. Be Mr Right first before lying around having sex while looking for Ms Right the wrong way.

On another note, this is about guys being mr nice guy, giving roses and all. It's all good, no doubt, but a good friend told me something that goes to the tune of this: "Whether a guy is nice to me or not is of secondary importance, but what is more important is whether he treats others around him the same way. Because once he gets used to me being around, he would treat me like how he treated others around him at the start." SO guys, are we being overly nice to girls and compromising on how we treat others? Perhaps what my friend told me would help you improve the way you treat people. I'm trying too.

calvin said...

well, that's a bummer =( i quite agree with ern sheong so haha yeah :)

pamsong said...

HAha. I have a series on my blog that's called Operasi Train Jantan, too! =p Looks like what we want guys to know, they want to know, too. =p

You've got interesting points there but I've gotta give it to Ern Sheong. Why sleep with someone or make out with them when there's no future in sight? Sure, we're sexual beings but that doesn't mean that we're animals, either – free to indulge in every vice as and when we feel like it.

So what if we have desires? So what if we have needs? Sex is something that I believe should be shared between two who have become one. When "your body is mine and my body is yours." And that only comes with marriage. It is not to be indulged by singeltons looking for a good time out. Want a good time? Go for a party. Hang out with your friends. Just stop thinking about it and I'm sure that the "urges" will go away.

And don't tell me it's a guy thing. I know plenty of good, godly guys who abstain from these worldly pleasures like many girls do. But you're right. It's tough. Even for girls.

You should read "I kissed dating goodbye" by Joshua Harris like Ern Sheong suggested. It's a good book. Cheers. =)

ern sheong said...

sorry if my last comment looks and feels like a knock in the head. i get really high when I type in the wee hours in the morning. EVERYTHING COMES OUT at that time. it's my peak hour.

and yes there is absolutely no doubt that guys (me included) struggle from the need for sex. we are all sexual beings anyway.

but when the feelings kick in, let the mind get a hold and do what is right. use your head, not your heart.

cheers

Your Humble Servant said...

Agree with everyone. Ern sheong really speaks my mind out already.

Both male and female are sexual beings. It's that how we control the sexual in us that will make us more human. If we only go along with the urge of lust, that's gonna make us LESS HUMAN. (From 'theology of the body')

Kevin Chan said...

Ernie,

Well, you have every right to your own moral standards, but this post does not in anyway attempt to either argue for or against intimacy. Fine that you think it should wait till marriage, but the fact still remains, that girls are sexual creatures.

Now, your comment highly suggests that you would withhold from all forms of sexual expression to a member of the opposite sex till you finally get it official, in the 'sacred' institution of marriage. But I put forth this point, aren't all girl-guy relationships inherently sexual in nature anyway? If they weren't, and the feelings you have for that girl were purely non-sexual, wouldn't it be the same kinds of feelings that you would have for a male friend?

I'm not saying go jump into the bushes and make out (however exciting that may sound), but there is always a sexual component to ever guy-girl relationship.

And being sexual, like I mentioned in the post doesn't mean having full blown penetrative sex, but it can be expressed in so many different ways - hugging, holding hands...

Perhaps I will argue for premarital sex another day, but that again is another issue for another post. (:

Pamsong,

Well, that's totally your decision, and it's totally up to you to decide the level of intimacy that you have with whatever partner.

Yes you may argue that we are not animals, but desires to play a great role in forming who we are. Without those desires, we wouldn't even bother seeking out the opposite sex.

But the main thrust (pun intended) of my argument still holds, that girls are struggling with the same urges that we guys are.

Your humble servant,

You know what really irks me? People going on about how sex should and must be saved for marriage just because it's something that should only be done when two bodies join as one in marriage.

I'm not sure about it, but it looks like one of those darned circular arguments if you ask me.

Anyway, you bring up an interesting point, on how going along with our urges makes us less human.

Okay, fine, you're quoting some 'reputable source', but what is the reasoning behind your argument here?

So are you saying that the most 'human' person is a celibate man just because he can control his sexual urges? I don't think so.

Just because we have urges and act on them doesn't make us less human, but it is in fact, on of the qualities that MAKE us human.

Nuff said.

Any more? (:

p.s. thanks for commenting! I appreciate it even though I vehemently disagree on some points!

Anonymous said...

"Think about it. What would your future wife think when she knows that you have had sex or kissed so many girls before her? And how would you think and feel if your future wife has sex with so many before you? Feel cheated? But one is asking for it with these lessons."

I don't care how much sex anyone has had, and I would never consider marrying someone who thinks having sex somehow makes you dirty. Nobody thinks like that, except people who are raised to believe sex is a sin. It's really unfortunate that sex is considered evil by so many people, since it's one of our most basic needs. Of course, love and committed relationships are a basic need also, but there is no reason why you can't have both. Why should you get married before trying to develop your relationship? That just means more paperwork if you eventually decide to split up.

chaiminhuei said...

I shall not discuss on whether different sexual cultures are amorally acceptable.

I agree with what Ern Sheong said. But I must agree with Kevin who is stating the reality: There is a whole lot of men out there with the culture of sexual openness, where they see sexual intimacy as a non-taboo conduct. It might not be right, but it exists.

Insomniatic said...

I have never seen so many closed minded people in my life. The bottom line here is that sex feels good to both men and women. Many women are just as sexual as men if not more so, and that doesn't make them sexual deviants. I think if you grow up your whole life thinking that sex is something that needs to be repressed, well then even when you are married you aren't going to have any fun with it. Relax already, he hasn't said anything that isn't true, whether you wait til you're married or not, his points are still valid. So take a chill pill.

chiavata said...

I wholeheartedly agree with Insomniatic. Human beings are made to be sexual creatures. Without sex we wouldn't be here, after all! It's obviously pleasurable, surely designed that way intentionally. Why does enjoying and desiring and enthusiasically participating in sex make a woman a sexual deviant?? It's just ridiculous.

nimalan said...

Being in the UK for a year now, and having seen guys and girls randomly making out in clubs,dirty dancing, and lets face it a fair share might go on to have sex, I've come to accept there really is probably nothing wrong with it. Sure, ERnie has said that he finds it immoral thing to do, to have pre-marital sex. But it is only immoral to us because of the culture we were brought up in. In the traditions they were brought up in this is perfectly acceptable. Before cries of an 'immoral West' comes out, let me pose a question, who sets the boundaries of what is moral? Why can it not be that their actions are the moral ones, and we are just people who are going against the norm, the good? Hence just as we should not impose religions on others, I kinda think that we should not automatically deem this actions immoral,vulgar and despicable.

Chia Wei said...

Well well well...

First things first... Our sexual urges, or desires come from our need/want to reproduce. Our smartass genes made it so that we feel good when we have sex so we'll have more children and so eliminate the chances of us being extinct(well I think we're TOO far from being extinct right now...)

So, why do you people think our culture brought us up to be so 'close-minded' to sex?

Something for people to think about. I'm not sure myself.

Anyway, regarding Kevin's post, a vagina is NOT only a pleasure-giving-organ. It is the pathway for the baby to come out. DUH!!!


Warning. Please do not read the following paragraphs if you are allergic to people who do not condone pre-marital intercourse. Please visit your doctor if your any of these gets into your eyes and they get inflamed. If symptoms persist, maybe you can dig your eyes out.

Also, I wonder why some people just can't think of the implications of sleeping around. For one, every girl in town is going to like you too much. Makes life a living hell for every other guy.

AAAAAND, also, virginity is still something people treasure. Why do people like buying stuff first hand??? Or animals like eating their prey instead of scavenging? Or are YOU a scavenger? Or maybe you're not. You just take every pretty girl's virginity away! So that others won't have it. Don't you just love Casanova!

Well, I have an acute allergy to pre-marital intercourse so I apologize if I sounded so terrible. However, I believe there are many other ways of having physical pleasure other than intercourse. For one, people should learn something called patience. If only people could take some time off from thinking about bedding girls to doing something more productive.... no pun intended.

Joelwong said...

Hey guys. This isnt a debate whether or not premarital sex is morally acceptable. I think that whether or not you should have premarital sex is really down to an individual's decision. I'm not against it, but its something i will not do.

All Kevin is trying to say here (i think) is that girls are just as sexual as guys are, that they're not pure, innocent angels that they would like to portray to public. Hence, dont be afraid to talk dirty, or have a stimulating conversation with her, etc etc just because you fear that she would think you're a pervert. (Which you probably are =p) Afraid to kiss her? She probably wants it MORE than you. Seriously, whether or not you guys have sex is down to you, but the point of this post is that you really shouldnt deprive yourself and your girl of physical contact just because she APPEARS not to want it, as long as it's within your moral boundaries.

Anonymous said...

Dear Kevin.

Let us follow your current assumption, i.e, you know what women want.

P1) Kevin knows what women want
P2) Women must like Kevin a lot (can't keep their hands/lips off him, apparently...)
P3) Kevin technically should have women flocking around him
P4) Kevin does not have P3
p5) Instead, Kevin is getting flamed by a large assortment of women.
_________________________

C: Kevin does not know what women want.

<3 Bern.

Kevin Chan said...

Bern,

You know that's an ad hominem, don't you. And most of the flamers here are guys anyway. So the argument doesn't stand anyway.

And just because I know what women want, doesn't mean that I want all of them back ya? (:

While, I'm not saying that what I write is holy writ, but it does make sense to me.

Care to dispute it, Bern?

I'll still love you even though you dont. (:

<3 Kev.

*will reply the other comments later, having a busy day!

pamsong said...

Haha. I'm liking this comment page. =p

Anonymous said...

Kev! The comments on this post really bring out the debater in you. Heh.

Chris

Kevin Chan said...

Pamsong,

Yeah, my readers love debating and doing their utmost best to disprove what I write about a lot of the time! (: But its all good fun!

p.s. just wondering if yr part of project trafford?

JoelWong,

You put it really well! Somehow this post has brought out opposing views of the role in sex and relationships (which I didn't even begin to discuss yet), and which I intend to discuss in greater detail in the future. (:

ChiaWei,

I was talking bout the clitoris, not the vagina. Geez. (:

Nimalan,
True, I don't think that morals should be imposed on others for no good reason. (:

Chiavata,
Well the tools are already there for us to use, right?

Insomniac,
:) well girl, that's asian 'values' for you. And I think that repressing sex makes people much more dangerous creatures.... like a sperm bomb waiting to rape explode at any given time! LOL

Anonymous,
I concur. I think refusing to have sex with someone just because she slept with someone else reeks of insecurity! Is it because you can't be the person that gave her the best time ever? (:

***

If anyone wants to read about arguments to why sex can be a healthy part of premarital relationships, read this post by the virgin from www.vcarded.com

VCarded's response

Cheers people!

ern sheong said...

"I have never seen so many closed minded people in my life. The bottom line here is that sex feels good to both men and women. Many women are just as sexual as men if not more so, and that doesn't make them sexual deviants. I think if you grow up your whole life thinking that sex is something that needs to be repressed, well then even when you are married you aren't going to have any fun with it. Relax already, he hasn't said anything that isn't true, whether you wait til you're married or not, his points are still valid. So take a chill pill."

"I wholeheartedly agree with Insomniatic. Human beings are made to be sexual creatures. Without sex we wouldn't be here, after all! It's obviously pleasurable, surely designed that way intentionally. Why does enjoying and desiring and enthusiasically participating in sex make a woman a sexual deviant?? It's just ridiculous."

I never said sex was bad or undesirable. It is the opposite actually, but as long as it is within marriage. On another note, sex is not bad, lust is.

ern sheong said...

"I concur. I think refusing to have sex with someone just because she slept with someone else reeks of insecurity! Is it because you can't be the person that gave her the best time ever? (:"

well dunno about the rest, but i think that if someone did sleep with someone else but has repented and is truly regretful of what they had already done, it is alright that we forgive and start anew. we cannot dwell on the past. we should forgive just as Jesus died to wash away our sins. (and yes I am unashamed of my Christian faith)

That CJC Girl said...

Silly boy, I do love you. I'm just following your assumption so the logic technically still holds because I'm arguing based on your grounds.

You know I like to make noise :3

shaun said...

Leaving aside my own personal opinion on this series (i.e. torn between amusement and irritation) let's look at your flip one-line rebuttals of Bern's argument.

It's not strictly an ad hominem because though the logic deals with you as a person, the aspect of you it deals with is directly relevant to this topic. Think about it. If you really are so good at knowing what women want, why aren't you more successful with them?

Do note your series has in fact been flamed by girls - in some cases, quite badly, either within your own blog comments, or on their own blogs. So never mind whether or not most of the flamers are guys, the fact is that women are not necessarily happy with the series anyway.

You've got to watch out for what Mr. Newby called "woolly thinking", dude. =p

The Beautiful Kind said...

For sure! The other day when my guy friend nailed a woman and gave me all the kinky details, I made sure to call him a "slut" instead of a "stud."

She is also a slut, by the way. :)

And so am I!

OH and I like all the freaky stuff in public and private, wherever, just so long as I don't freak little old ladies out (unless they are into it) hee hee

Great post! Spread the word!

Mon-Mon said...

OMG I cannot believe there are people out there in this day and age who believe sex without marriage is sinful or dirty. BLECH. Makes me sick to my stomach.

Regardless of marital status or emotions, sex is one of the greatest acts that we humans can be involved in! I don't know if I think it's a basic NEED but holy hell, I would certainly not want to be without sex!

I tend to argue that you holier than thou commenters have been suckered in by religious, family and/or societal beliefs and pressures to miss out on something really fantastic because of some misguided sense of morality. I'd feel sorry for you guys if I wasn't so busy having as much sex as I can!

Oh well... to each his or her own, I always say...

Great post!

Anonymous said...

“For one, every girl in town is going to like you too much. Makes life a living hell for every other guy.”

What about the girls feelings? If the girls are happy with this one slutty guy, what gives all the hypothetical “other guys” the right to be pissed off? Girls can like whoever they want.

“AAAAAND, also, virginity is still something people treasure. Why do people like buying stuff first hand??? Or animals like eating their prey instead of scavenging? Or are YOU a scavenger? Or maybe you're not. You just take every pretty girl's virginity away! So that others won't have it. Don't you just love Casanova!”

TAKING THE PRETTY GIRLS VIRGINITY AWAY? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? Who’s to say the girls can’t have sex with whoever they want to? What makes having sex with an experienced girl “scavenging?” Girls aren’t delicate little daisies who become violated by sexual deviants, they are human beings who choose to sleep with whomever they wish. They don’t have their virginity “taken away,” unless they are raped. Really, that is the whole point of this blog post. Since I’m a girl, I always thought it was obvious, but apparently it isn’t to some people.

You haven’t answered the main question. The question I don’t know the answer to is: What is wrong with having sex with more than 1 person? All of your answers so far seem to be on the premise that we KNOW losing virginity is undesirable, but we aren’t ADMITTING it. That isn’t true. Nobody knows what you are talking about.

“On another note, sex is not bad, lust is.”

Lust is the desire to have sex. Are you suggesting that everyone should have sex without wanting it? Is it only to create babies?

Seriously, I am taking an ethics class, I need to know this.

chaiminhuei said...

"Lust is any intense desire or craving for self gratification and excitement."

Quoted from Wikipedia, but it should be quite acceptable. Lust is not always related to sex.

BTW, discussing whether sex before marriage is morally correct is like debating whether killing is wrong. There is just too much room for attacks. In the end, who decides? Is there such thing as absolute good or evil? The fact that the media is already injecting us with their interpretation of morality shows us that our views of morality do not lie within critical and objective grounds. As in, we say that sex before marriage is okay just because everyone else says the same thing. And mind you, the majority is not always the right thing.

Putting the environment, our biological factors and our own interpretations aside, what is right? Is there a right?

chaiminhuei said...

Sorry for double posting.

In respond to anonymous: "They don’t have their virginity “taken away,” unless they are raped."

So, if a 70-year-old grandmother gets raped for the first time in her life, then ONLY does she lose her virginity? The statement doesn't make logical sense (to me).

And, in respond to everyone thinking that having sex is just a way of fulfilling certain sexual needs, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SUPPRESSING AND CONTROLLING. We are not saying that when you have sex with someone it should be done without sexual desires, but it should be controlled.

Have you heard of 'The Lord of The Flies'? I suggest you read 'The Lucifer Effect' before even posting a response.

Andrew Ong said...

"Hamlet's Hero lesson #5: Girls want to do all those things to you too, but in private, not in public."

Discreetness of a relationship might be contrary to what most guys would like - bragging rights. Being in a relationship generally casts one in a favorable light as far as social status is concerned, thus to be unable to perform such acts of intimacy in public may have doubts cast on the intimacy of the relationship itself, at least from an outsider's perspective.

How would such a conflict of interest be resolved?

Kevin Chan said...

Min Huei,

Can you show the relationship between the events in the 'lord of the flies' as well as 'the lucifer effect: understanding how good people turn evil' with the discussion here.

Mere (book) name dropping only adds to further confusion. And how is controlling different from suppressing? Please explain.

And concerning the issue of virginity 'taken away', what anonymous is trying to say is that virginity shouldn't be considered something that is forcefully taken away by the act of sexual intercourse. It just is another thing you do. A first time, yes, but I think anonymous disagrees with the concept of losing one's virginity as something being 'taken away' from you. Nothings lost just because some very human body parts are rubbed against each other.

(: will reply the other comments soon. Cheers!

Chia Wei said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chia Wei said...

Anyway I was just ranting. If you don't like what I say, you can just ignore it. Don't have to get so unhappy over it...
Or are you so concerned that people may get hurt not following your advise? Oh I'm touched X) (no sarcasm included)
Well, for one... I don't know whether having sex if and when you like it with whoever you want is good/bad. I honestly don't know. Maybe all the experienced boys and girls out there can share all their post-sex experiences with us?


Kevin, the clitoris develops into a penis if you're a guy. So we don't actually have 1 less area of pleasure. Both guys and girls have 1 - clit/penis and 2 - g-spot/prostrate.
Please don't sound so victimised as if girls have so much more. Some girls don't even get stimulated much through the clitoris. That's from what I read of course, maybe some experienced girls/guys can correct me?

Anonymous said...

"BTW, discussing whether sex before marriage is morally correct is like debating whether killing is wrong. There is just too much room for attacks. In the end, who decides? Is there such thing as absolute good or evil? The fact that the media is already injecting us with their interpretation of morality shows us that our views of morality do not lie within critical and objective grounds. As in, we say that sex before marriage is okay just because everyone else says the same thing. And mind you, the majority is not always the right thing."

No, I didn't decide premarital sex is ok because the media said so. Stop being so condescending.

For the record, I don't really care if you want to save it for marriage. Maybe that's the best choice for you. The thing that disturbs me is your lack of respect for everyone else's freedom of choice. People who have premarital sex don't do so out of ignorance or stupidity. They have thought about it just as much as you have and they decided it wasn't a problem for them.

It's sad that you respond to my question about what is undesirable about premarital sex by saying there is no such thing as right or wrong and there is no reason to discuss it. If you really believed that you wouldn't have voiced any moral opinions on this blog.

"And concerning the issue of virginity 'taken away', what anonymous is trying to say is that virginity shouldn't be considered something that is forcefully taken away by the act of sexual intercourse. It just is another thing you do. A first time, yes, but I think anonymous disagrees with the concept of losing one's virginity as something being 'taken away' from you. Nothings lost just because some very human body parts are rubbed against each other."

The thing I am objecting to is the picture chaiminhuei is painting of women as the innocent victims of male sexuality. How come in chai's story, it is the men "taking away" the virginity of the women, or "girls," and not the other way around? How come the women the men are sleeping with are not taking away the virginity of the men?

The point is, nothing is being taken from anyone. When people have consensual sex it mutual. Nothing is tragically lost and given to another person.

chiavata said...

ern sheong---
lust makes for the best sex.

Kevin Chan said...

Chiavata,

Yeah, come to think about it, if not for lust, people wouldn't even want to have sex at all!

Shin L Evliz said...

I do agree with your point of view on girls want sex as much as guys do but under one condition - if we girls get the feeling that the guy who is going to have sex with us actually love us, instead of just some crazy infatuation or lust.

And about the "privacy" thingy, I don't quite agree - a bit of (the point is, a bit) kissing in the public gives us girls a sense of security (you know, the feeling that "oh-this-guy-is-mine", seriously!

Anyway, interesting post, thumbs up, heh

ern sheong said...

wow some war going on here...

@chiavata:
"lust makes for the best sex."

lust is also the factor that causes husbands to sleep with women other than their wives. yes it might give you some great sex for a while, but everything after that is bound to be bitter, esp if your wife finds out...

@anonymous: "Are you suggesting that everyone should have sex without wanting it? Is it only to create babies?"

Never did I suggest that sex is a routine and mindless thing. From above, I said "sex is something beautiful made by God, to be enjoyed by man and woman, but it must be within the boundaries of marriage." It is where two become one, the union between husband and wife. So I did not suggest that sex is only for babies, though that is the result anyway.

From http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-lust.html:

"The dictionary definition of lust is: 1) Intense or unrestrained sexual craving, or 2) An overwhelming desire or craving."

"Lust has as its focus pleasing oneself, and it often leads to unwholesome actions to fulfill one's desires with no regard to the consequences. Lust is about possession and greed." You should be able to see that lust is in fact the cause of all sexual crimes today, not sex.

So sex is not the problem, lust is, which incidentally is the title of another book by josh harris, which i haven't read.

well all the best to all in living out your lives the way you want to! just don't regret your actions in the future! this comment section has both sides covered (although i think it seems to be lopsided), so decide for yourself the way you want to live... i don't claim to know much, all these are just the observations and stands that i have gathered over the years. so i live by them as far and as much as i can.

God bless,
ES

chaiminhuei said...

"No, I didn't decide premarital sex is ok because the media said so. Stop being so condescending."

http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2007/02/124946.pdf

I'm too lazy to synthesize anything with Biopsych Mids tomorrow. BRB.

Chia Wei said...

Maybe we should be posting constructive comments rather than discussing whether having sex before or after marriage, whether a lot or not, with whom, or how, is ethical/correct or not...

Kevin, maybe you should direct them to http://puachukang.blogspot.com
It's an old but not-so-outdated short blog about PU that some people and some people did...

Kevin Chan said...

Shaun,

Well, it is a logical leap to claim that my current status has any effect on the soundness of my arguments. You know that my current situation may be the result of other more relevant factors ya?

And if you read my comments, you would realize that there are quite a number of women happy with my posts too! (:

So don't be so quick to assume that im some hated misogynist!

The Beautiful Kind,

Your comment made my day!

You so have a point there! Guys and girls can both be sluts, and be happy about it too!

(:

Mon-Mon,

Yeah I do think its a basic need. Suppress those desires and you have a recipe for a crazed monster.

Anonymous,

I agree. I wrote about virginity in another post and how I believe that it's just another experience. I don't understand why people read so much meaning into it. ):

Shin L Evilz,

Hahah, not all girls are comfortable with that! But yeah, as a rule of thumb, first kisses should still be private. After that, its all free game.

And while girls in general do get mix emotions with sex, its not always the case. We all still get horny. Don't you? (:

MinHuei,

Remember that the argument goes both ways: just because you read about it from a book, doesn't mean that a certain belief is the right belief too. (:

Yeah, no one argued that people think that premarital sex is ok just because society thinks it is. As I see it here, MonMon and the BeautifulKind just seem to enjoy sex for what it is, not because society tells them to. So hows that relevant?

(:

Reading yr comments at the end of the day makes my day!

Stefanie said...

Back :) After a long week of absence,
Surprisingly one of the exam questions was:
"1. Describe the Human sexual response for male and female"
Sweat!**
Stages are desire ( which can last up to months and years), Plateau, Orgasm and Resolution.
I dont think i should go into the details ( haha it was worth 6 marks in my exam!)

Well, sometimes here in the western society, sex is seemed as meaningless and not as sacred* as we asians think. basically it lies within our own upbringing.

I had a friend who had his room mate do it* in the same room at night when he was sleeping. Goodness, and thought it was bad hearing people do it everynight.

Sex and the city is actually a good interesting series if i may speak. Well it teaches some things, despite the explicit things in there. What to do and not to do, being judgemental.
i agree with kev about privacy in PDAs and kissing etc --> make out.

Girls do like to be secretive! :)

Oh well, i think i am running out of ideas. EXAMS are OVER YIPEEE.

X :)

Kevin Chan said...

Stef,

An alternate route could also be:

Orgasm, orgasm, orgasm.

Doesnt sound too bad, does it?

:D

Ome said...

*jumps in*

Re: pre-marital sex, Ern Sheong spoke my mind already. I agree with him, and he had it backed up well. (I have always held the idea of no pre-marital sex and one relationship, one marriage before I became a Christian, no idea why, but yeah.)

However, I think the response would not hit the argument that Kevin is trying to achieve here, that is to state the reality that women are sexual creatures. Of course they are. They do feel attracted towards men (if not, something's wrong, please consult God, or your friendly psychologist if you ain't a Christian) and they do want to touch, to kiss, and when they do some of those, everything just roller-coaster down from there.

I believe that the reason Ern Sheong brought up pre-marital sex is because Kevin wrote it in a very suggestive way that pre-marital sex is okay.

(Thanks to Ern Sheong for preventing women from getting swayed by temptation easily though. Kevin is darn suggestive. XD)

No quote to substantiate, just the feeling when I read it anw. Hehe.

Well, as much as everyone's entitled to his or her own moral standards, it is sad to say that the line between right and wrong has become blurred and compromised in today's society... Then now got people accuse people with stricter moral standards. What the. Er... if you enjoy sex... fine, go ahead. It's your choice. It's other people's choice to do what they think is right too. (Don't go around accusing people of being holier-than-thou simply because people think what you think is right, is wrong please. I'd request people on "my" side not to accuse too.)

Right, not gonna go further, I have no intention of attracting fire. =P

As for women preferring to get intimate privately... hmm... that doesn't explain the rampant of guy-and-girl kisses on MRT rides. More than 50% of the rides that I make, I'd be sure to come across at least one. =.= Of course, you can say that what a woman wants [is not equal to] what couples really do. Okay, kisses not as bad as sex, but sex on MRT... Okay, that's unthinkable.

I have to point out that while all women are sexual creatures (that is, have sexual tendency) not all women give in to the tendency. As it can be seen here, some women don't advocate pre-marital sex (some don't even advocate immature romance) so while we (both women and men) don't have a choice to turn off our sexual tendency, we do have a choice resist our temptations and do what we feel right, even when the world's moral standard is going down the drain. If you choose to not to do that, your choice is respected. =)

ern sheong said...

well said, ome.

Juice Mag said...

I guess women want sex, tender, love, and care. Also women don't want men to be so predictable so be sure you keep yourself a little busy not too busy that you don't have time for her, but yeah :P

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